Igniting accessible experiences podcast - episode 3

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  [00:00:00] Bridie: Hello everyone. Welcome to the Accessible Tourism in Queensland podcast, where you will hear from people with disability tourism, operators, and experts in accessibility and disability inclusion. This podcast is supported by the Queensland Government.

  [00:00:15] Ben: As always, you've got your hosts here, Ben and Bridie back for another episode of the podcast.

  [00:00:22] And today we're gonna be focusing on welcoming guide hearing and assistance animals into tourism, organisations, operations and experiences across Queensland.

  [00:00:33] Bridie: Right now we are talking to Rory. How you going Rory? Thanks so much for coming.

  [00:00:39] Rory: Pleasure. Good afternoon. Thank you for having me.

  [00:00:41] Ben: And Rory to start off with mate, why is accessible tourism important to you?

  [00:00:47] Rory: It's very important to me as I'm a person who is blind to have zero vision and without accessible tourism it would make it impossible for me to gain the experience of traveling whether [00:01:00] that be to Queensland or elsewhere within Australia or overseas. Traveling with a guide dog is paramount for me, and it will allow me to have the best possible experience I can.

  [00:01:09] Ben: I also am a person with low vision. I've only got two per cent eyesight, so completely understand some of the barriers. I'm not a guide dog user myself. I use a white cane, but understand the barriers, but also the importance of having something to assist you getting around. Do you wanna give us a little bit more of an introduction about yourself and your connection to disability?

  [00:01:28] Rory: Absolutely. I lost my vision 10 years ago following a trip to Queensland, ironically enough.

  [00:01:35] Ben: Not blaming Queensland.

  [00:01:36] Rory: No, certainly not, certainly not. I have fond memories of Queensland and the trip, but whilst I was in Queensland, I had a complaint in my left ear and didn't think a huge amount of it because I flew to and from Queensland, from Victoria.

  [00:01:48] But when I returned to Victoria, about a week later, The discomfort in my left ear was quite extreme. So I went to, I followed the general courses one would do, gonna get checked [00:02:00] out by the GP and then referred to the hospital and so on. Still wasn't right, a couple days later, went back to the GP.

  [00:02:08] Three and a half weeks later I awoke with zero vision. So that's my association with disability and I'm very proactive or as much as I can be in working in the disability space providing feedback, guidance, and support to make things as comfortable and accessible for individuals who are blind or indeed have other disabilities where they might need some some pointers to help their progress in their life continue.

  [00:02:39] Bridie: Absolutely. That is such important work. What does your dog mean to you? Would you like to introduce him?

  [00:02:45] Rory: My guide dog, Saul, is a relatively new introduction to me. He's my second guide dog. My previous guide dog, Gideon, retired early this year. After a close on eight and a half years of wonderful service.

  [00:02:56] Ben: Shout out to Gideon.

  [00:02:57] Rory: Big shout out to Gideon. Absolutely. If [00:03:00] you're listening, Gideon.

  [00:03:01] Ben: We can play for him later.

  [00:03:02] Rory: Yeah, that's right. Saul means a number of things to me not only to me, but to my family, to me from a point of view of being my wonderful, trusted, and hugely valuable. Words can't describe how valuable wingman when it comes to my mobility and point of feeling as safe as possible when I'm out on the roads going about my day to day business on my own.

  [00:03:26] So he's my eyes essentially.

  [00:03:28] Ben: I'd love to understand a little bit more about the mechanics, me personally I've trialed a guide dog once or twice, but never to the extent of knowing the assistance and service a guide dog provides on a daily basis. Can you walk us through the mechanics of maybe what a guide dog provides? I know you'd also be aware of the difference between a guide dog and a white cane, how it all works and whatnot.

  [00:03:50] Rory: I'll give you a very good example of what a guide dog can do compared to a cane if that would be okay.

  [00:03:57] Ben: Absolutely.

  [00:03:58] Rory: Guide dogs are trained to [00:04:00] navigate obstacles and hazards, and when a hazard presents itself, they're trained to stop before you reach the hazard so you can investigate the potential hazard.

  [00:04:11] Or for them to stop until the hazard has moved on i.e. a parked car that's sitting in the driveway. It wasn't so long ago I was walking down a road and it was quite a windy day as we know, it can be in Melbourne, and it was a straight road. And I was walking at a fairly reasonable pace as I like to do with Saul. And we're walking along and I'm always encouraging him. And talking to him just to keep up that relationship. And I didn't hear a car reversing outta his driveway and he suddenly stopped, put the brakes on immediately. And I said, "come on mate come on, what's going on?" I thought it might be a bin or something, and I still couldn't hear it.

  [00:04:53] So as we are trained to do his handlers, I reached out just very carefully to observe what was in our path. And it was a [00:05:00] car which I had not heard because of the wind. A white cane doesn't do that.

  [00:05:06] Ben: A white cane runs into the car.

  [00:05:07] Rory: The driver realised that I was touching the car to find out what the obstacle was, popped their head out and said, "I'm so sorry I didn't see you".

  [00:05:15] And I said "I didn't hear you". Thank God Saul was on the ball. Guide dogs are all trained to a certain level to stop at corners, stop at curbs, find various landmarks that you might need to find on travel route that you have practiced. So for example today I walked to and from my local gym, which is around a three kilometre walk.

  [00:05:38] And in order to do that, I have to be trained with Saul to find the pedestrian crossing to find the post where the button is to cross the pedestrian crossing. We have to navigate past the school. That's quite interesting if you are walking past the school and it's school drop off time or school pickup time I had then have to find a bridge. We have to find the rail to cross the bridge. Then I have to cross [00:06:00] a busy road. We have to find the crossing for that road. Then we have to be able to stop in the middle of the road where there's an island to find that island. All these things happen with practice and repetition, and that is, what the guide dog is trained to do is to find these landmarks in order to keep themselves and the handlers safe.

  [00:06:18] Bridie: So clearly Saul, your guide dog, is so integral to you, Rory, and your mobility. But what would it mean for you if your guide dog Saul was denied access to a certain space?

  [00:06:31] Rory: That would be very confronting and it would be highly frustrating, disappointing, and upsetting. That has happened to me not with Saul, I'm pleased to say, but it did happen to me with Gideon.

  [00:06:43] I was at a cafe in the Melbourne area and I was there with a friend of mine. It was a beautiful day. We were sitting outside, we were gonna go and have some breakfast, and I sat down and someone brought out the menus. My friend was reading me the menu and someone else came out and said, [00:07:00] "no dogs".

  [00:07:01] And I said, "he's a guide dog". And this individual said, "don't care". So I was trying to explain to him and I was getting out my access pass and all that sort of stuff, that it's a legal requirement for the establishment to allow me into the establishment with my guide dog. And I said, "maybe you should go and talk to your manager and just double check".

  [00:07:26] And at this stage I was being, pretty calm. So I thought that would be resolved. But he came back within a couple of minutes and said, "I've spoken to the manager she says, no dogs". I responded by saying, "can you ask the manager to come and talk to me? "And the manager was not actually on the site. She was on the phone and was essentially asking me to leave, which I did rather upset and frustrated and annoyed. Half an hour later, the manager because I left my phone number, asking them to get the manager to call me. Half an hour later, the manager called, and was very apologetic. She'd obviously [00:08:00] realised the error of her ways and she was suggesting that I should come back to the cafe with all the family for free meal and all this sort of stuff.

  [00:08:06] But the bottom line is individuals who run a business in Melbourne needs to be aware of the accessibility laws for individuals who are guide dog handlers and train their staff accordingly.

  [00:08:18] Ben: Really important to mention that the laws around assistance animals, that's guide dogs. Hearing animals and assistance animals are the exact same. Australia wide. Anyone using an assistance dog or a guide dog in any context in Australia cannot be refused entry or service whether it's in Victoria, New South Wales, Queensland, or any other state. So obviously this podcast aimed at Queensland tourism operators.

  [00:08:45] Those exact same laws apply in every single venue, every single experience.

  [00:08:50] Bridie: Rory, what do you think tourism operators and businesses can best do to support you and your adjustments and your [00:09:00] access needs and how you navigate the world with Saul?

  [00:09:03] Rory: For them to be fully acquainted with their legal responsibilities.

  [00:09:08] And I think on the whole certainly in my experiences with the exception of the one I've just mentioned, most of them are pretty onto it 'cause they realise if they're not. They're gonna get a very bad name for themselves very quickly. And potentially a hefty remuneration fine.

  [00:09:22] But in terms of being as a venue when I arrive at a restaurant, for example, with Saul, is just to talk to me like they would anyone else." How can I help you? How can I best serve you? Does your dog need anything?" all that sort of stuff that you would hope they would ask.

  [00:09:38] With likewise with someone perhaps was in a wheelchair or if someone was had another disability, ask them if there are any amendments or adjustments that can be made for that individual to have the best experience they can whilst in their restaurant or wherever it might be.

  [00:09:53] Bridie: When people make those mistakes, what do you think they can do when they realise that they've made [00:10:00] those assumptions to rectify the situation?

  [00:10:04] Rory: I suppose the immediate best case scenario would be for them to do whatever they can there and then to make your current stay as comfortable as possible. By that I mean make sure you've got plenty of space for your dog, make sure they tell you where the accessible toilets are, all that sort of standard stuff.

  [00:10:26] Along with that, a sincere apology for the mistake they had made would be fantastic. That would go a long way to me, thinking okay, they've realised the error of their ways. That shouldn't have happened and I'm not excusing that, but they have done what they could to rectify that.

  [00:10:45] And then thereafter, if I went back in, say a month or two later, I would like to visibly, visibly, that's the wrong phrase from my perspective. For people I'm with to visibly and for me to, from an audio perspective, hear that [00:11:00] welcoming entrance to the establishment. And make it quite obvious that they will deal everything they can to assist me whilst I'm on their premises.

  [00:11:11] Ben: Going into more of some practical tips for people because people that I have heard that are guide dog users, that have people come up in the street and wanna pat their dog, they wanna say hello to their dog. What happens when there's other dogs? So I'd love to hear from you about how people should interact around you, but more specifically you and your guide dog as a unit together.

  [00:11:33] Rory: Again, communication really. With Gideon this particular scenario was I was crossing quite a busy road in Melbourne. It was a two lane road each side, so four lanes essentially. So had to really pick up the pace to cross the road while the audio button was still going. Probably about halfway across from memory, someone actually stopped me whilst I was crossing the road and said, "oh, what a beautiful dog. Can I pat him?" Whilst I was crossing a busy road and I said "thanks for interest, but no", and [00:12:00] just walked on. If an individual comes to me and I'm with Saul as I have been say for example, I'm waiting at a bus stop or a tram stop or at the train station, wherever it might be. If I'm waiting for a mode of public transport, people often come up and then just say hello, have a chat, which I welcome.

  [00:12:20] I'm quite into chatting. I don't mind a chat myself.

  [00:12:23] Ben: Hence why you're here

  [00:12:25] Rory: Indeed.

  [00:12:25] Ben: And obviously having a guide dog is a conversation starter for many if that individual asks me if they can pat my dog. I will say, and if I have time before the bus arrives and it's safe to do I will say, "sure, let me take the harness off", and I'll let them know that the harness is an indicator to Saul that he's working.

  [00:12:47] So at no point, regardless of who the individual is, should they try and interact with a guide dog whilst they're working. Because if you do, you may well distract the dog and therefore distract me and put he and I in an unsafe [00:13:00] situation. But if I'm waiting for a bus, train and there's time and it's safe to do so and someone wishes to talk to Saul, or indeed previously Gideon, then I'll let 'em do that.

  [00:13:10] And that's the handler's call.

  [00:13:11] Bridie: That's been a common theme of our podcast, ask, don't assume. It all comes back to communication and that one phrase ask, don't assume is really not that hard, but is really the key to accessibility and inclusion. Rory, we've got one final question for you.

  [00:13:28] Can you think of your most favorite inclusive experience when you have been traveling?

  [00:13:35] Rory: Yes. It was onboard an aircraft. Guide dogs travel with their handlers in the cabin, they don't go into the hold as a non-guide dog or service dog would have to do they travel, no extra cost to me.

  [00:13:52] The seat next to me is left adjacent and Saul and Gideon, before him would sit in the footwell. And it's a real [00:14:00] conversation starter with other passengers as well. When they're boarding the plane, you know what, "it's a dog on the plane, what's going on?" But in terms of being inclusive on the aircraft, it generates interest.

  [00:14:09] It is another conversation starter. The cabin crew always very defined in making sure that I have the required assistance being made to feel comfortable and valued like any other customer on the plane is really important regardless if I've got a guide dog or not.

  [00:14:26] Bridie: And do you think Rory, that, that cabin crew, do you think that they were just intuitive with your needs and were able to be respectful and empathetic enough to ask and not assume or do you think it was a result of them receiving good training?

  [00:14:41] Rory: I think it's probably a combination of the two. I'd like to think it's a combination of the two. I've had some indifferent experiences in airports, not necessarily on planes, actually on the planes has always been very positive. But I think, I'm sure they are very much aware that there's a blind passenger aboard in the aircraft when they get their schedule through for that particular flight [00:15:00] or the day or whatever it might be.

  [00:15:01] And they're probably reminded of that by the crew that are in the airport. And I check on, 'cause as a guide dog handler, I'm asked to check on as one of the first passengers, like parents with kids and so on and so forth. So they are forewarned that I may need assistance, but also combined with the training that they've got, they'll offer me a mat, the guide dog is required to sit on a mat in case they have an accident on the plane. They'll always offer me a mat. Although a handler you should take your own and so on and so forth. So I do think it's a combination of the two.

  [00:15:31] Ben: Yeah, that's great. Rory, you've been absolutely fantastic today in giving us some of your insight, having Saul here, what a team you both make. And it's so awesome to hear how you're able to travel and experience the world with the support of your guide dog.

  [00:15:45] Thank you so much for your insights.

  [00:15:46] Rory: Thank you very much indeed.

  [00:15:47] Ben: Thanks Rory

  [00:15:48] Rory: Thank you.