Igniting accessible experiences podcast - episode 1

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  [00:00:00] Ben: Welcome to the Accessible Tourism in Queensland podcast, where you'll hear from people with disability tourism operators, and experts in accessibility and disability inclusion. This podcast is supported by the Queensland government. This episode is focused on tourism operators and what they're doing in the accessible and inclusion space.

  [00:00:24] I am one of your co-host, Ben, here with my other co-host, Bridie. Bridie how are you today?

  [00:00:28] Bridie: I'm so great.

  [00:00:29] Ben: And we have got. Chantel from Dreamworld on. Thank you so much for joining us. We're really excited to talk to you. But to start with, we love to kick off every single episode with a question that is, why is accessible tourism important to you?

  [00:00:46] Chantel: To me personally and to Dreamworld. We're just really passionate about bringing happy memories that last a lifetime to our guests. And we wanna make sure that exists for all of our guests. So we [00:01:00] recognise that guests with disabilities are faced with challenges and barriers to experience tourism activities.

  [00:01:05] So we're seeking to remove those barriers and give them the opportunity to extend their day with us. And obviously there's positive business outcomes to that as well. And we want to continue to maintain and be a viable business. But really it's about making sure that we've got that opportunity to create those happy memories for everyone.

  [00:01:24] Bridie: What type of things have you implemented to make Dreamworld more inclusive?

  [00:01:30] Chantel: Investing in our frontline team members and making sure that they attend annual training around inclusion and disability has been something that's really important because obviously if we introduce products or services within the theme park that are great for people with disabilities to use or mean that we're a lot more of a welcoming property. Really those concepts mean nothing if our frontline team members who are at the coalface don't have any idea of what those services look like and what those [00:02:00] products look like. So our annual training is something that's really important to us.

  [00:02:04] In terms of things that are a little bit more significant and we've seen some capital investment. We've got a train called the Dreamworld Express that we recently about 18 months ago brought back to the theme park. And we've incorporated fully accessible carriages into that. And the business took a great stance because it wasn't just about accommodating guests using wheelchairs or people who had low or challenged mobility.

  [00:02:30] It was also around making sure that there was a universal access that was ticked. So we took the stance to invest in raising the stations as well. So that was like about near nearly half a million dollars in raising the stations to ensure that everyone will be able to experience the Dreamworld Express.

  [00:02:48] And that's a key attraction and a key mode of transport across the theme park to access the back part of our theme park.

  [00:02:54] Ben: I'd love to, before we, we keep moving through, you mentioned the staff training for your frontline staff. [00:03:00] How was that received and what did you put in place to communicate the 'why' behind that training and the importance?

  [00:03:07] Because so often with staff training I think we can all say that we've done some form of training from time to time that you roll your eyes and go, "Ugh, just another thing we've gotta do, we've gotta tick this box. We've gotta get that progress bar to a hundred percent to say that we've done it. And hopefully we've never gotta think about it again". How do you change the mindset of the frontline staff when doing the training?

  [00:03:29] Chantel: In terms of then having that focus on inclusion and ensuring that guests that team members are using appropriate terminology and language and things like that's actually been quite easy.

  [00:03:41] We've strategised by incorporating our frontline leadership team as an initial training ground, and we do a lot of consulting. So initially some of our training has come from Autism Queensland, where they'll send a representative out to the park and then talk to our key leaders and do a little bit of a training program [00:04:00] so they can see from that organisation's perspective what a theme park experience is like for someone who's got autism. Most recently, we had an access consultant this year come out and he's a wheelchair user. So again it's getting that experience from people who have got lived experience to be able to talk to our team members and our team members who already have a lot of empathy for every guest that comes into the park to really hear from people with lived experience, what the barriers are like where the challenges are, what's appropriate and what's not appropriate. And we're in a safe space, so if they have questions that they might not feel comfortable asking someone with a disability out in the park, then we have that opportunity to just go, just get it out in the open let's just try and ask some tricky questions. Because if we are not really honest with each other we are not gonna get any further.

  [00:04:48] Bridie: The feedback you get from those consultants or even the feedback you get from customers who visit the park who have disability or their families or friends. [00:05:00] Does that feedback then inform what accessibility and inclusion measures that you implement?

  [00:05:06] Chantel: We really care about that consultation.

  [00:05:08] So whether it's consultation with our partners, whether it's with our guests themselves or with organisations getting that feedback is so important. And also we have to be comfortable to sit with the fact that there might be some discomfort in the feedback that we receive too. We're not always gonna hit the mark.

  [00:05:26] Sometimes we will have great intentions, but we'll miss it entirely. So when we receive critical feedback or criticism that clearly communicates that you tried to do something good, but you've really missed out and someone who has got lived experience is telling you've missed out.

  [00:05:42] We need to be able to sit with that discomfort and be comfortable enough to go, "okay, so what improvements do we need to make and how can we make that service a little bit better?".

  [00:05:50] Ben: What are some challenges that you faced in wanting to become more accessible and inclusive along the way?

  [00:05:58] Chantel: The big one is just not [00:06:00] knowing where to start. Where do you start when you first go? "Okay, be more inclusive. Let's be really accessible", what does that mean? And as we mentioned before, just the fear of not getting it right as well. You, you can be well-meaning, but you can stuff it up.

  [00:06:15] I've mentioned it a couple of times, but consultation is really the key to addressing those fears and establishing that changes don't need to cost the earth. So I've talked about the capital investment we had for the Dreamworld Express, but it doesn't have to be a significant capital expense either.

  [00:06:33] Just starting out small and just making little increments of improvements whether it's reviewing your website. We have got a community initiative each year called the Scarecrow Project, where we invite schools across Australia to build scarecrows that fit a certain theme, and they enter to win the chance to win up to to $5,000 for their fundraising body or their PNC. This year we set the theme to be the year of [00:07:00] accessible tourism. So it, that has cost us nothing. We always set up the opportunity for the donation to the PNC. So it's not a significant expense at all. The kids are doing the work, they're gonna be building the scarecrows, but it's just starting the conversation and making sure that the conversation happens in conjunction with Dreamworld as well.

  [00:07:19] We are trying to make sure that informs everything that we do. So whether it's new investments, like new rides and new slides at our waterpark we need to make sure that. Someone with lived experience, access consultants are consulted with. And we're an older property too, so we're 40 years old, we're built when access wasn't really discussed. So we are still having to make changes to make sure that wheelchair users can comfortably access all parts of the park. But it, as I said, it doesn't have to be a significant capital expense just to get started.

  [00:07:54] Bridie: Have you received. Feedback from guests and customers who have [00:08:00] disability or their family members and friends, what has that experience been?

  [00:08:06] Chantel: Feedback from guests is key in what we do because if we are not hitting the mark we want them to let us know and we have to put the ego to the side and listen to that feedback and go, "okay, we need to quantifiably make sure that this works for the intended audience".

  [00:08:20] And example of that is our sensory guide. We're almost complete with our sensory guide, almost ready to produce it and pop it on our website when we got through the draft. We sent it out to a variety of guests with disabilities to have them evaluate the document. And yeah they really gave us the feedback and it was wonderful to get the feedback, but we'd done a terrible job.

  [00:08:41] It was excellent to get the feedback from them so that we could reduce the text, incorporate more imagery and set them up for success. Before they even enter the park. So feedback, very key. We have surveys that go out to our guests post visit. And I know that the [00:09:00] surveys go to myself as the head of operations, also our guest services team, our CEO and our operations director also are very diligent in reading those surveys. We are a business that is small enough that we can really focus on those details. And it's great for our guests to know that our CEO is receiving their feedback too.

  [00:09:21] Ben: Good to hear, and it's, testament to your commitment, has there been things that you've done, changed, implemented, improved, that have been quite easy and cost effective, that have made a big difference?

  [00:09:35] Chantel: We are just beginning our path with a company called Vacayit they develop audio guides for different experiences across Australia. It's quite a cost effective app that they're, the vacate team have developed. And working with them, they're going to develop an audio guide for our overall park with the view to then develop specialised audio guides for each of our attractions.

  [00:09:58] It was [00:10:00] only through. Honestly through the opportunity of having 2023 be announced as the year of accessible tourism in Queensland. That's really gotten the tourism industry in Queensland going that the conversation has really started in our state. organisations are coming to the forefront that maybe tourism operators weren't aware of.

  [00:10:21] And that's how we got the opportunity to connect with Vacayit. To have that, that relationship be developed. We are about to become a member of the Sunflowers Hidden Disability Program which is a amazing program where you get the opportunity to display a sunflower once you've achieved the training.

  [00:10:40] And the training is very straightforward. It's just three, three minute videos. And it just starts that conversation around hidden or invisible disabilities. So a guest is gonna feel comfortable and safe in your environment to be able to suggest, "Hey, when we do this ticketing transaction, can we just go a little bit slower? I've seen you've got the sunflower [00:11:00] there on your lanyard". That is very simple. The membership is not expensive at all for an annual membership. And being able to give guests in our environment, the opportunity just to take things a little bit slow or maybe just explain things in a different way and provide some additional support is a very cost effective method.

  [00:11:19] But honestly, it's that consultation. With people with lived experience because they're best to tell you. This is where I find it really difficult to experience your destination or your service or your product.

  [00:11:30] Bridie: For us as people with disability, I. Information for us is key. We need information around the venues where we're going to attend.

  [00:11:40] We need to be able to plan for our accessibility needs. We need to know what options are available to make our experience accessible, but also what options may not be available yet that certain venues don't have access to again, as of yet. Does Dreamworld provide that [00:12:00] information for people with disability in order to access?

  [00:12:03] Chantel: We do, but that is definitely an area that's a real work in progress for us. We know we want to develop our website a little bit more. We've got some of the basic things in terms of attractions, rider restrictions and there are, ultimately, there are some rider restrictions that are set by the manufacturer.

  [00:12:21] And while we work with our manufacturers really closely to ensure there's maximum accessibility there is going to be a barrier, like a height restriction or a size restriction in place that we're just not able to alleviate. Those basic things are there on our website, but we know that's an area that we need to continue to develop.

  [00:12:40] So for things like our sensory guide and the audio guides from Vacayit and then general website accessibility still needs some improvement.

  [00:12:48] Ben: From my point of view. Often the marketing side of things gets left until the organisation feels like it's in a place of perfection and the progress is [00:13:00] so much more important for somebody like myself to see because like you said, the venue's 40 years old.

  [00:13:05] I'm not going to dream world rocking up at the gates going, "this is gonna be state of the art" as if it was built yesterday. That's not gonna be the case. I know that's realistic. Everybody else knows that. They're not expecting perfection, but marketing what you are doing, marketing what you're working on and marketing.

  [00:13:21] Even what you haven't done yet, but what you're planning on doing in the future is a great showcase of what you've already done, but also what you're committed to continue to improve on. And that communicates a message of inclusion, a message of commitment to the entire disability community that I think is really powerful and I think can't be underestimated from organisations like yourselves point of view, because it does have such a huge impact. Chantel thinking about the organisation more broadly, we've talked about the customer with disability. We've talked about what you've done for the customers and then the [00:14:00] feedback you've received from them. Have you received any feedback from staff that have interacted with customers with disability or have been unsure?

  [00:14:09] Like what's the process there in supporting the staff? Obviously you've got the training, but more so on the ground examples.

  [00:14:16] Chantel: Yeah, absolutely. Our frontline team members always have supervisors within easy reach and guest services team is quite proactive. Certainly when a guest presents to our guest services office and they've got questions around attractions or access and things like that we actually have an office, which is Park Health and Accessibility, and they could go into really nitty gritty details around access.

  [00:14:39] It might be around experiencing a slide with a prosthetic, for example. We've worked with our slide manufacturers to enable guests with prosthetics to be able to wear a cover that we provide on their prosthetics and then they can safely experience those slides where previously guests with prosthetics may not have been able to.

  [00:14:56] But also sometimes those conversations they don't [00:15:00] go the way you'd like to. Best intentions, sometimes your communication. Drops off and you inadvertently offend someone. So getting the opportunity to escalate those conversations to a supervisor is super important. Our PNC department has been really proactive with surveying our team members too, internally with a diversity and inclusion survey just so we can get an understanding what does our working team, what does that look like? And although it's completely anonymous, we get a bit of an idea of the percentage of people with disabilities who work amongst our team. And so knowing and having that data has been super rewarding because we can see the direction we are going in for our guests and they can see the direction that we're going in for our guests as well.

  [00:15:47] And it's a lot more meaningful. And it opens up the conversation to, to see what kind of support networks we need to put in place for our team members too.

  [00:15:55] Bridie: We'd love to put to you, Chantel, why do you think all [00:16:00] Queensland tourism operators should invest in inclusion?

  [00:16:03] Chantel: Obviously, it's the right thing to do to make sure that everyone has access and the opportunity to experience tourism destinations and anything.

  [00:16:14] And ideally, universal access is the way to go because accessible access. Doesn't just benefit people in the disability community. It's it universally benefits. And for us, something that's really been drilled down as well is it makes good business sense. It does to be able to increase your patronage and your attendance opportunities.

  [00:16:37] There's a market there and that market is. Not just one person, it's a family, prolonging a family stay in your property also means that more money's gonna be spent. If you're a destination that's got hotels and things like that's a lot of dollars coming to tourism industry that might not otherwise have been spent in our industry.

  [00:16:56] In terms of support, friends and family that [00:17:00] will visit with a person with a disability there's real financial benefit too.

  [00:17:05] Bridie: Absolutely. And at Dreamworld, have you seen the benefits and the return of investing in inclusion?

  [00:17:12] Chantel: Yeah, absolutely. You can see that there's been data collected around what our patronage looks like and in terms of Disability patronage, that's very much similar to what our market was coming in from China Pre Covid.

  [00:17:27] So that was something that was invested in heavily, especially in the Gold Coast tourism market. And the disability market is equal to that, if not more.

  [00:17:35] Ben: And that we benefits from an intersectional point of view, because there'll be then more international travelers from China, for instance with disability that would come and be patrons at Dreamworld as well. Chantel, it's been absolutely fantastic to have a conversation with you. It's been super insightful, super impressive to hear what Dreamworld not only is doing in the space, but has learned the [00:18:00] openness with some of the challenges that you've had, the mistakes you've made along the way.

  [00:18:03] I think you've hit the nail on the head with a couple of key points. Ask the questions, seek the help and support of consultants with lived experience, really important one. Be comfortable with getting it wrong. Be okay with not getting it perfect from the get go, don't be afraid to invest because it makes good business sense and everyone.

  [00:18:25] Has the right to equally experience what Queensland on a whole and every organisation within it has to offer. So your insights have been fantastic. The work you've done has been awesome. Thank you so much for sharing.

  [00:18:38] Bridie: And hearing the rollercoaster in the background the whole time is giving. Ben and I reckon a lot of FOMO. It sounds fantastic.

  [00:18:46] Chantel: I wasn't sure if you could hear it in the background, it's the Gold Coaster and my office is right next to the Gold Coaster. So yes, that's a coaster in the background but thank you guys. Thank you for the time and the opportunity it's obviously something that we are very passionate about at Dreamworld and we're so [00:19:00] excited to be part of the conversation and yeah, we just love welcoming guests and making those happy